Vizuina Tapirului

Curricula => Hippocrate unplugged => Topic started by: originaltup on February 10, 2005, 06:45:33 PM

Title: cazuri
Post by: originaltup on February 10, 2005, 06:45:33 PM
ca tot fac o gramada de grile acum, o sa mai pun niste cazuri mai interesante si din care cred ca se poate invata cate ceva.



A 32-year-old man comes to your office for preoperative evaluation prior to his right knee meniscal injury that will be repaired arthroscopically. The anesthesiologist gave him minimal risk for major complications.
The patients knows that he has mitral valve prolapse, and the anesthesiologist asked him if he has had an echocardiogram.
The patients request this test today. He is healthy, normal review of systems, no medications. No heart murmur is heard on physical examination.
The intervention is tomorrow.
The most appropriate management at this time is:

A. advise the patient that no antibiotic prophylaxis is necessary
B. obtain an echocardiogram and delay surgery until the results are available
C. order blood cultures preoperatively
D. order blood cultures postoperatively
E. recommend antibiotic prophylaxis to cover for infective endocarditis
F. monitor for endocarditis and give antibiotics at the first sign
G. refuse to obtain the echocardiogram
Title: cazuri
Post by: A CERB on February 10, 2005, 06:57:33 PM
A.
Title: cazuri
Post by: originaltup on February 10, 2005, 07:20:39 PM
asa am zis si eu, dar raspunsul e altul
AHA guidelines sunt asa: la toti pacientii cu MVP, se recomanda eco cord, cand ai urmatoarele cazuri:
1. nu are regurgitare, deci nu e la risc si nu e nevoie de profilaxie
2. are regurgitare sau ingrosarea valvei, caz in care ii faci profilaxie
3. nu poti sa faci eco inainte de operatie: e mai safe sa ii faci profilaxie (chiar si pt o procedura low-risk, ca cea din acest caz) pana cand ai un rezultat de eco
Este o abordare mai putin clinica dar mai safe.
Asa ca raspunsul este E.
Title: cazuri
Post by: A CERB on February 10, 2005, 07:27:42 PM
da, bre, evident ca refuzi, dar conteaza cum ii spui. raspunsurile sunt tampite.
Title: cazuri
Post by: plure on February 10, 2005, 09:58:54 PM
Deci profilaxia endocarditei si pt o artroscopie...inseamna ca pt orice dar absolut orice interventie sangeranda ii faci profilaxie (plus conditiile de mai sus cu regurgitarea).
Title: cazuri
Post by: A CERB on February 10, 2005, 10:09:17 PM
skuze, aku am vazut ca E. nu e ala ku refuzul.

dupa kum zice si plure, nu stiam ca artroscopia necesita profilaxie, mi se pare ciudat. o sa ma dokumentez.
Title: cazuri
Post by: originaltup on February 10, 2005, 10:41:37 PM
am mai cautat si eu dar nu am gasit nimic inca, nici pro si nici contra. Grila e adaptata din Kaplan QBank pt step 3, si pana la proba contrarie iau de bun ce zic ei in explicatie.
Title: cazuri
Post by: originaltup on February 13, 2005, 07:15:20 PM
Case 2

You are in ER, taking care of a 26-yo graduate student. She presents with nausea and vomiting for 2 days. She has been trying to get pregnant for 6 month, and reports that she missed her last period and the home pregnancy test was positive. By dates, she is 7 weeks pregnant. She has normal periods, and her first prenatal visit is in 4 days. She does not smoke or drink, and takes multivitamins and iron, but she finished them 2 days ago and she wants a refill of her prescription.  
Her vital signs are stable and she is afebrile.
A pelvic exam reveals an aprox 10 weeks sized uterus. A beta hCG is 150,000. The pelvic ultrasound confirms your probable diagnosis and she receives the appropriate treatment.
She is ready to be discharged home, and the most important medicine to send her home with is:

A. acetaminophen and codeine
B. combined oral contraceptives pills
C. ceftriaxone
D. folic acid and prenatal vitamins
E. methylergonovine
Title: cazuri
Post by: magdutz on February 13, 2005, 07:42:14 PM
eu zic D ..dar din cultura generala, fara stagiu de gineco facut...nu dati cu pietre! :oops:
Title: cazuri
Post by: adrian on February 13, 2005, 08:16:33 PM
si eu tot la  D ma gandesc.
Title: cazuri
Post by: digital on February 13, 2005, 08:46:29 PM
raspunsul B. are cred GTT si pentru a-i urmari evolutia, tre sa te asiguri ca nu ramane insarcinata.
Title: cazuri
Post by: originaltup on February 13, 2005, 09:01:09 PM
digital, ai dat peste grila asta  ? :lol:
Raspunsul corect este B.
Diagnosticul este de sarcina molara (beta-hCG f mare pt date, uter mare pt date, si eco cu aspect caracteristic de "snowstorm"; chestia asta era trecuta in grila dar am scos-o pt ca erau suficiente date pt diagnostic).
Trat este "dilation and curettage", si apoi urmarirea beta-hCG timp de 1 an pt ca are risc crescut de choriocarcinom. Ca sa fii sigur ca o eventuala crestere a beta-hCG provine de la un choriocarcinom, trebuie sa elimini posibilitatea sa creasca din alta sursa, adica sarcina, deci ii dai si OCP
Title: cazuri
Post by: digital on February 13, 2005, 09:14:32 PM
nu chiar asta, dar asemanator... ce ma mira e ca de obicei stiu ca astea au si sangerare vaginala in peste 90% din cazuri, dar ce ma bucura e ca mi-am amintit-o, ca ma gandeam ca pana cand ajung la step3 o sa uit tot ce-am dat la step2 si-o sa fie naspa. cum ziceai si tu, se uita extrem de repede.  :lol:  asa ca mai baga daca mai ai!
Title: cazuri
Post by: plure on February 14, 2005, 12:07:01 AM
Cam nasoala intrebarea pt ca desi mi-am dat seama ca era mola (HCG prea mare pt termen plus uter mai mare decat termenul), nu am recunoscut nimic din tratament. Nu mi-am dat seama ca au sarit peste o etapa...Cred ca trebuie sa faci astfel de intrebari ca sa fii pregatit.
Title: cazuri
Post by: originaltup on February 14, 2005, 05:40:13 PM
caz 3

A 33-yo woman comes to the clinic because she did not have a period for over a year, she has white discharge from both nipples and has a severe frontal headache for 2 years.
Laboratory:
FSH - 7 mIU/ml (n=2-20)
prolactin - 78 (n<20)
TSH - 20 (n=0.5-5)
MRI - pituitary enlargment with a mass measuring 14 mm in diameter.
The next step in management is:

A. evaluation of other pituitary hormones
B. formal visual field testing
C. referral to a neurosurgeon
D. therapy with bromocriptine
E. therapy with levothyroxine
Title: cazuri
Post by: plure on February 14, 2005, 06:40:30 PM
C fiindca este macroadenom? (Bromocriptina parca era pt micro).
Oscilez intre C si A. Oricum secreta si TSH.
Title: cazuri
Post by: A CERB on February 14, 2005, 07:17:07 PM
agree,hai sa-i dam ku neurosurgeon( btw, se face gamma-knife la adenoame?)
Title: cazuri
Post by: plure on February 14, 2005, 07:20:07 PM
Da, se face. Da-l trimitem la neurosurgeon fara camp vizual?
Title: cazuri
Post by: A CERB on February 14, 2005, 07:24:21 PM
mda, stiu ce spui, si aici sunt intrebarile de step 3 scarboase. in practica, evident ca are nevoie si de fund de oki, dar nu-ti skimba managementul, asa ca faci trimiterea anyway.
Title: cazuri
Post by: laurad on February 14, 2005, 07:38:46 PM
E?
Ca prolactinomul are valori mai mari de prolactina, iar la pacienta asta prolactina e stimulata de TRH, care e crescut daca are hipotiroidie primara
Title: cazuri
Post by: A CERB on February 14, 2005, 07:40:33 PM
da bre, da atunci de ce are discharge-ul ala?
Title: cazuri
Post by: laurad on February 14, 2005, 07:42:28 PM
De la prolactina, nu?
Si amenoreea tot de la prolactina, ca inhiba GnRH
Eu spun ca nu prolactinomul e cauza, ci hipotiroidia, care face toate astea
Title: cazuri
Post by: plure on February 14, 2005, 07:46:55 PM
Interesanta parere, dar pacienta nu are simptome de hipotiroidie (cel putin nu se spune) si mi se pare prea complicat.
In plus, ce hipotiroidie cu tot TRH crescut determina ditamai adenomul?
Title: cazuri
Post by: A CERB on February 14, 2005, 07:47:51 PM
gotcha. intrebarea e ce faci ku adenomu'?pompezi levothyroxine and hope for the best?
Title: cazuri
Post by: laurad on February 14, 2005, 07:52:16 PM
Imi ceri prea mult, nu bag mana-n foc, dar s-ar putea ca asta sa fie de facut.
La intrebarea ta ,raspunsul e F.:trimiti pacienta la o-tup, care sigur stie raspunsul.
Title: cazuri
Post by: A CERB on February 14, 2005, 08:14:21 PM
da, bre, nu te supara, eram numai kurios. in afara grilei,  in real life.
Title: cazuri
Post by: originaltup on February 14, 2005, 08:26:08 PM
raspunsul corect este E (nici o grija, si eu l-am gresit).
E cum zice laurad, e hipotiroidism care stimuleaza intre altele si TRH, care la randul lui stimuleaza si prolactina.
Cica "the circulating TSH should be measured in all women who have amenorrhea or galactorrhea or both, to exclude hypothyroidism".
"Many reports have documented that primary hypothyroidism can mimic a pituitary tumor and can lead to profound pituitary enlargement, because of the hypertrophy of tyrotrophs. After treatment with levothyroxine, the enlargement of the pituitary should subside and the patient should become euthyroid."
Daca era prolactinom nu am fi avut TSH crescut.

Daca era prolactinom cred ca de prima intentie e bromocriptina, si daca nu merge ajunge la neurochirurgie (in caz ca nu sunt deja manifestari compresive mai grave).
Title: cazuri
Post by: plure on February 14, 2005, 08:41:44 PM
Doar ca o hipotiroidie atat de profunda care sa creasca TRH suficient nu cred ca ti-ar scapa dpdv clinic. Desi se vede ca da, avand in vedere ca probabil cazurile astea sunt inspirate din practica.

Oricum de treaba asta uitasem complet (cu TRH care stimuleaza secretia de prolactina). N-as fi raspuns corect pt nimic in lume dupa stagiul de endocrine din anul 5.
Title: cazuri
Post by: A CERB on February 14, 2005, 09:00:51 PM
tsh-ul ala nu e asa de mare, cred ca poate scapa clinic.aia care arata ca la carte il au pe la 80. imi rekunosk inkultura, tre sa mai cetesk despre adenoame.
Title: cazuri
Post by: adrian on February 14, 2005, 09:17:13 PM
astia la Parhon ziceau ca in prolactiom cel mai probabil ai o prolactina>200...
 ca si curiozitate, deunazi am vazut o pacienta cu boala Cushing la care tratamentul nu a fost excizia chirurgicala a tumorii pituitare(pe motiv ca nu exista neurochirurg in tara care sa faca asta :shock: ) ci pur si simplu i-au scos suprarenalele si au bagat-o in Addison. cam aiurea don't you think?
Title: cazuri
Post by: A CERB on February 14, 2005, 09:22:16 PM
parka stiam ka in ro se facea wedge resection la suprarenale, nu chiar total. agree ka e barbar.
Title: cazuri
Post by: adrian on February 14, 2005, 09:31:14 PM
in 2 saptamani de stagiu(pana acum) am vazut 2 cazuri-una astepta sa fie operata si una venise pt investigatii("avea" Addison de vreo 2 ani),si chiar am intrebat asistentul daca asta se face standard si daca kiar nu se incearca totusi cu neurosurgery.mi-a zis ca au fost prea multe cazuri cu boala Cushing care dupa surgery tot cu asta au ramas.
 
a mentionat totusi ca marele dezavantaj e ca aici nu se face dozarea ACTH din sinusul pietros si au fost cazuri in care s-a scos altceva decat tumora secretanta.a recunoscut ca e primitiv...
Title: cazuri
Post by: plure on February 14, 2005, 09:48:21 PM
Harrison (adevarat editia a 14-a): severe primary hypothyroidy can cause hyperprolactinemia...

O hipotiroidie atat de severa incat produce un adenom tireotrof de 14 mm, care la randul lui secreta doar 20 ng TSH...

Cazul asta e calibrat pe cunoasterea punctuala a relatiei hipotiroidie primara-hiperprolactinemie, fara a avea legatura neaparat cu studiile sau clinica. Toate sunt asa?

E corect ce spui O-tup cu tratamentul cu Bromocriptina pt micro- si macro- initial, si ce spui tu Adrian. Problema e ca dupa cativa ani amanuntele nu iti sunt la fel de clare ca la endocrine. :P
Title: cazuri
Post by: laurad on February 14, 2005, 10:02:12 PM
Ma, da' nu m-am suparat neam!

Asa zic si americanii astia, tot peste 200.

Io am ascultat cursurile lui Goljan, care imi plac la nebunie si el povesteste foarte misto cauzele de galactoree. Sa tot ai profesori ca asta!
Si se pare ca-s utile si la step 3, chiar ca merita
Title: cazuri
Post by: laurad on February 14, 2005, 10:08:05 PM
N-am vazut suficiente hipotiroidii ca sa-mi dau seama cat de frecventa e situatia asta, cred ca ideea lor e sa sublinieze greseala de a sari cu cutitul la un om care nu are nevoie decat de niste pastile
Title: cazuri
Post by: plure on February 14, 2005, 10:12:06 PM
Iti propun ceva. Poti sa mi le trimiti si mie ca attachement? Pt ca nu sunt in tara.
Title: cazuri
Post by: elfstone on February 14, 2005, 10:20:02 PM
Uite ce-am mai gasit, desi vad ca i-ati dat de cap pana la urma. (Eu n-am facut bine intrebarea si m-am cam bosumflat):

Several systemic disorders lead to hyperprolactinemia. Primary hypothyroidism is a common cause, and measurement of thyroid function, and especially TSH, should be part of the evaluation. In primary hypothyroidism, there is hyperplasia of both thyrotrophs and lactotrophs, presumably due to TRH hypersecretion. This may result in significant pituitary gland enlargement, which may be mistaken for a PRL-secreting pituitary tumor. The PRL response to TRH is usually exaggerated in these patients. PRL may also be increased in liver disease, particularly in patients with severe cirrhosis, and in patients with chronic renal failure.

Greenspan, Gardner: Basic & Clinical Endocrinology (Lange, 2003), ,  chapter 5

Serum prolactin levels are increased in about 40% of patients with hypothyroidism, presumably a manifestation of increased TRH release; this will revert to normal with T4 therapy.

(same, chapter 7)
Title: cazuri
Post by: adrian on February 14, 2005, 10:59:20 PM
laurad, indraznesc si eu sa iti cer audio lectures ale lui goljan;ma bazam pe faptul ca  le gasesc pe www.coolgoose.com dar au disparut subit lately.

 pleaseeeeee!!! thanks
Title: cazuri
Post by: laurad on February 15, 2005, 08:17:26 AM
O.K.