News:

So anyway, Vizuina is back online (fură ceva probleme cu PHP 7/5, alea.. și oricum ați uitat)

Main Menu

Imi place W.

Started by elfstone, October 25, 2004, 12:02:43 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

A CERB

manolo, eu refuz sa mai discut cu tine pe teme medicale pana nu te maturizezi si iti revizuiesti atitudinea. ce ma tot freci cu sexualitate-blasfemie, obscurantism si tampenii?ti-ai luat ritalinul azi?

nimeni nu are tupeu sa citeze studiile lui mengele, dar e chic sa -l citezi pe boul ala pedofil numai pentru ca a exagerat numarul poponarilor spontani din populatie, chestie care tickles to death gay activists.ce nu intelegi? tu ai adus vorba de el, nu eu.

as vrea sincer sa se faca studii cu gay si sa se mai si publice. nu o sa se intample, numai se vehiculeaza cifre fara nici o acoperire( era 3-4%din populatie gay, acum am auzit si 10%, in cativa ani o sa fim toti poponari, doar ca nu stim. a naibii chestie! btw, tu esti popo? nu trebuie sa raspunzi)
Smile! It confuses people!

manolo

ok, then, am ajuns la common ground un pic. anume ca sa se studieze problema, atat a sexualitatii normale (asta, asa, pentru amorul artei folosit acest cuvant, ca nu mai stie nimeni exact unde mai e normalitatea), cat si a celuilalt spectru, respectiv homosexualitatea.

ziceam de Mengele, pentru ca aparea analogia Kinsey-Mengele in articolul trimis de cnicu.

Nu, nu sunt homosexual, darmite popo!  :lol:

Serios vorbind, nu am nimic impotriva lor. Am cunoscut destui homosexuali, marea majoritate oameni absolut normali. Ba chiar m-a surprins faptul ca cei pe care ii stiu eu (asadar, nu generalizez!) erau mult mai ingrijiti si mai curati decat multi din cunoscutii mei (o sa imi spui ca uite cu ce scursuri umblu, nu?), mai cititi si mai cultivati.
De asemenea, o grija mult mai mare pentru partener, poate si din cauza ca sunt inca priviti ciudat.
Am cunoscut si cupluri romane, si straine.
Nu mi s-a intamplat niciodata sa fiu acostat sau sa mi se faca avansuri din partea unei persoane homosexuale. Nu stiu daca au un simt special pentru asta, dar isi dau seama cine e straight si cine nu.
De altfel, principiul pe care il aplic atat lor, cat si altor minoritati care isi cer drepturile este acesta: pot avea orice drepturi vor, atata timp cat nu mi le incalca pe ale mele. Mai democratic de atat nu cred ca pot fi.

Mai sper sa se faca aceste studii serioase despre homosexualitate, pentru ca in sfarsit W. sa nu mai spuna ca nu stie, ci sa aiba si el o opinie informata.
Sa moara mama! Ba sa moara ma-ta!

A CERB

manolo, am mai spus-o pana m-au durut degetele, nu am nimic impotriva homosexualilor ca indivizi, in special cei care sunt in relatii stabile, de lunga durata, cu adulti. am un mare cui impotriva activismului gay si impotriva tacticilor de intimidare folosite( acum e imposibil sa publici orice studiu care contravine agendei gay, admitand ca ai gasi bani pentru asta)

cat de mult iti displace tie w, raspunsul lui a fost mult mai de bun simt decat al lui kerry, care a afirmat fara sa clipeasca ca toti poponarii se nasc asa. a naibii chestie! de unde stie el?
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

a naibii chestie indeed da' de unde stii TU?
Priblema ta cu poponarii cerbu este ca tu generalizezi. Si ca folosesti activismul gay ca sa caracterizezi (pe nedrept) liberalii, bagandu-i pe toti in aceeasi oala.
De acum incolo pentru mine conservatori or sa fie numai membrii KKK si aia de la tabara neo-nazi din Iowa
cre'că, nu ştiu...

A CERB

dl. tapir, pentru tampeniile debitate ai amenda 2 kobani. daca nu esti atent iti dau ban! tocmai asta am zis si eu ca NU STIM. CE PANA CONSERVATOARE MEA MA FRECILA ICRE! imbecilul de kerry STIE.


pe mine nu ma intereseaza liberalii iubitori de natura( tree huggers), sau aia care urasc wal-mart si cumpara de la pravalia din colt, etc, etc, etc.

aia sunt cei misguided, dar bine intentionati. tu generalizezi cand spui ca generalizez( ce zici ce duma am scos?)

doar pentru ca nu discut despre toate tampeniile liberale nu inseamna ca ii bag pe toti in aceeasi oala( adica pro-popo, anti-religie). singura data cand ma intereseaza toti e o data la 4 ani, si tocmai a trecut.
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

misguide e cioporul tau de ciute. Daca nu esti de acodr cu ei nu inseamna ca EI saunt aia misguded. Dincolo de orice diferenta de opinii, iote asta nu imi place la tine (si de aia te tot provoc), pretentia ta ca your ways are the good ways. Aialti sunt saracii bine intentionati, dar misguided.
Io cand am zis de poponari, te-am intrebat pe tine, da' tu stii? ca tu esti ala care sustine sus si tare ca homosexualitatea este produsa prin influenta environmentului.
cre'că, nu ştiu...

lucisandor

Ete unde statea liberalu', bre, in cuibul lor comunist de la Nature.
http://www.nature.com/news/2004/041025//full/041025-20.html
100,000 civilians may have died in Iraq conflict

originaltup

bre cerbu, am vazut si eu cand a zis Kerry chestia aia si parca a zis: "I think that they don't have a choice, ...". Adica crede, nu stie sigur.
Si daca zici ca nu e nici o diferenta intre a crede si a sti, adu-ti aminte de scoala cand raspundeai la o intrebare cu "cred ca .."  :lol:
"There is a big difference between knowing the path, and walking the path"

A CERB

Quote from: tapirul
Quotemisguide e cioporul tau de ciute. Daca nu esti de acodr cu ei nu inseamna ca EI saunt aia misguded. Dincolo de orice diferenta de opinii, iote asta nu imi place la tine (si de aia te tot provoc), pretentia ta ca your ways are the good ways.


tapiru, crede-ma nici mie nu-mi place, dar asa se intampla.

QuoteAialti sunt saracii bine intentionati, dar misguided.

ar trebui sa apreciezi bunavointa.

QuoteIo cand am zis de poponari, te-am intrebat pe tine, da' tu stii? ca tu esti ala care sustine sus si tare ca homosexualitatea este produsa prin influenta environmentului.[/

am zis si cred ca nu sunt 10% spontan si determinat genetic, si ca asta e propaganda. de asemenea, am zis ca o buna parte( evident nu toti, nu ma mai fute la icre cu tampenii) sunt corupti( in fund) si aia ma doare pe mine. ce pana mea nu ai inteles?
Smile! It confuses people!

manolo

uite, ma, ce face lectura din oameni...

acum aranjam pentru printare una din cartile primite de la Pisica, Executive Orders, de Tom Clancy. Si cum scanam eu asa, pentru curatarea textului, ghici peste ce dadui. Cerbule, esti atent?

Quote"The JCSs are all gone. The deputies are stepping in. Mickey Moore"--Army General Michael Moore, the Deputy Chairman of the Joint Chiefs--

sa fie presimtire? :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Sa moara mama! Ba sa moara ma-ta!

A CERB

sigur manolo, mm este un nou da vinci, uimitor in universalitatea lui. se pricepe la geopolitica, strategie militara, stiinte sociale, arta, nutritie( nu ta lasa inselat de faptul ca arata ca un imbuibat, inauntru e slim si beautiful), igiena( de asemenea, jegul afisat este tot o forma de arta, mai mult, o filozofie, ceva gen counterculture).

de ce n-ar fi si chief of staff?

intr-o lume alternativa in care martin sheen e presedinte. wooops, i'm talking about your liberal dream land( or la-la land, for that matter)
Smile! It confuses people!

A CERB

sigur manolo, mm este un nou da vinci, uimitor in universalitatea lui. se pricepe la geopolitica, strategie militara, stiinte sociale, arta, nutritie( nu ta lasa inselat de faptul ca arata ca un imbuibat, inauntru e slim si beautiful), igiena( de asemenea, jegul afisat este tot o forma de arta, mai mult, o filozofie, ceva gen counterculture).

de ce n-ar fi si chief of staff?

intr-o lume alternativa in care martin sheen e presedinte. wooops, i'm talking about your liberal dream land( or la-la land, for that matter)

thorazine anybody?
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

bre cerbu, ai edit.. Nu tre' sa postezi de doua ori.. Acu te trimit cu bagajele inapoi la imed :twisted:  :twisted:
cre'că, nu ştiu...

A CERB

am edit pentru typo. am hotarat, in intelepciunea mea nemarginita, sa va raspund stereotip de acu inainte la toate vaicarelile liberale. raspunsul va fi:

4 more years( si nu 4 moore years)
Smile! It confuses people!

manolo

cerbu, era o gluma si si mai important, fictiune...

de altfel, si liderii democrati au inceput sa se cam spele pe maini de MM.

dar totusi, vorba ta, chill!
Sa moara mama! Ba sa moara ma-ta!

A CERB

too late now( chestia cu spalatul pe maini) 4 more years!
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

for more years de rahat.

Words...by George W. Bush

"Ariel Sharon of Israel is a Man of Peace"
George W. Bush

"General Musharraf of Pakistan is a Democrat"
George W. Bush

"The inhabitants of Greece are the Greecians"
George W. Bush

"The French don't have a word for 'Entrepreneur'"
George W. Bush

"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country." George W. Bush

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
George W. Bush

"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."
George W. Bush

"The future will be better tomorrow."
George W. Bush

"We're going to have the best educated American people in the world." George W. Bush

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
George W. Bush

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe." George W. Bush
"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."
George W. Bush

"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
George W. Bush

"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."
George W. Bush

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
George W. Bush

"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system." George W. Bush
cre'că, nu ştiu...

Tez

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Sorry,nu m-am putut  abtine!
You labeled me
I’ll label you
So I dub the unforgiven

elfstone

Cam mari coincidentele:

"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system!"
- Dan Quayle, former U.S. Vice President

"Traditionally, most of Australia's imports come from overseas."
- Former Australian cabinet minister Keppel Enderbery

Cine stie cum or fi celelalte (cu exceptia lui "We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe." pe care l-am vazut cu ohii mei :) ). Mai ramanea sa zici ca si celebrul "Ich bin ein Berliner" tot de  W a fost zis :P

Lasand asta la o parte, vreau sa reamintesc un asa-zis citat stupid atribuit lui George Bush tatal. Fara indoiala ca exista posibilitatea sa fie o tampenie, omul sa fi gresit, sa nu fi avut nici o intentie sa spuna ce a spus. Totusi, de cand stiu acest citat, el mi s-a parut extraordinar de plin de inteles, iar sensul sau devine cu atat mai important in vremurile pe care le traim. Indraznesc sa le dedic acest citat tuturor celor de pe aici care sunt ferm convinsi ca au dreptate (check the tagline).
"I'd rather be happy than right, any day of the week"

tapirul

well, Dan Quayle a fost vice-president al lui Bush tatal, asa ca suntem close enough  :P  :P
cre'că, nu ştiu...

elfstone

Ehh... si cum de ai uitat-o pe cea mai celebra?....

“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we; they never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
"I'd rather be happy than right, any day of the week"

manolo

bai, poate e un pic off topic, dar oficial imi bag PULAAAA in francezi si frantuzismele lor. am ajuns la Strsbourg, dupa ce din cauza TGV-ului era sa pierd trenul la Chamberry si apoi la Lyon.

Aici, la centrul pentru tineret, au un net center, cu tastaturi franceze, la care literele sunt complet aiurea puse, la fel si semnele de punctuatie. asadar kill the french bastards care ma fac sa ma uit de trei ori la o tasta inainte sa o apas...
Sa moara mama! Ba sa moara ma-ta!

elfstone

Vaaaai, aceste cuvinte ne doare!

Si daca e o capcana?! Eu zic sa incercam, Inalt-Preasfintia Ta!

Fii capitanul nostru!
"I'd rather be happy than right, any day of the week"

A CERB

Quote from: manolobai, poate e un pic off topic, dar oficial imi bag PULAAAA in francezi si frantuzismele lor. am ajuns la Strsbourg, dupa ce din cauza TGV-ului era sa pierd trenul la Chamberry si apoi la Lyon.

you're beginning to come around!next thing you know you're a bushie!keep up the good work. fuque les french!
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

bre, sa lamurim o chestie. Aici io nu dau ban pentru aiureli, flaming, etc, ci PRIMESC. Numarul de conte este 4578....
cre'că, nu ştiu...

manolo

Quote from: cerbou
Quote from: manolobai, poate e un pic off topic, dar oficial imi bag PULAAAA in francezi si frantuzismele lor. am ajuns la Strsbourg, dupa ce din cauza TGV-ului era sa pierd trenul la Chamberry si apoi la Lyon.

you're beginning to come around!next thing you know you're a bushie!keep up the good work. fuque les french!

cerbule, nu te bucura prea devreme... deocamdata astia ma hranesc bine, pe gratis, bautura din belsug, ca, deh, sunt francezi! cazare buna!

iar bushie... poate cand o iesi la pensie... si o sa vorbeasca doar prin purtator de cuvant. acum, cand o face el insusi, e cam greu sa mi se opreasca tiuitul din urechi de la prostiile pe care le spune...
Sa moara mama! Ba sa moara ma-ta!

annie

Close ur eyer for ur eyes will only tell the truth
And the truth isn't what u want to see....

A CERB

i think they should all move to canada. wait! north koreea. too bad they don't shoot traitors anymore.
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

cerbu, fii atent ca a mai aparut un film de michael moore... Nu vrei sa il vezi? Uite posterul



cre'că, nu ştiu...

lucisandor

Sa reevnim la Bush: desi nu am de dat TSE (test of spoken english), ma preocupa o chestie. Cum se citeste "nuclear" in America? NU mai am nici un reper de cit il aud pe cizmarul american spunind "nuchiulăr".

A CERB

pai asha se citeste. ce nu e klar?
Smile! It confuses people!

kooksee

eu zic sa atasati un .wav cu pronuntia.
eu tot nu am inteles



kooksee
nu sunt doar un vis, hey, hey/
atinge-ma pe clitoris, hey, hey

originaltup

uitati aici, si phonetic si audio: www.m-w.com/
"There is a big difference between knowing the path, and walking the path"

lucisandor

QuoteForty-five percent of Americans also believe that God created human beings pretty much in their present form about 10,000 years ago. A third of Americans are biblical literalists who believe that the Bible is the actual word of God and is to be taken literally, word for word.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/login.aspx?ci=14107
Niuchiular e oribil.. E ceva texan sau american (cum ar spune ei "nation-wide")?
(pentru lenesi m-w.com e site-ul merriam-webster, acolo sint 3 wav-uri, doua cu nucliar si unul cu nuchiular)
QuoteThough disapproved of by many, pronunciations ending in \-ky&-l&r\ have been found in widespread use among educated speakers including scientists, lawyers, professors, congressmen, U.S. cabinet members, and at least one U.S. president and one vice president.

A CERB

luci, cat la suta din populatia musulmana crede ca coranul e cuvantul domnului? what's your point?
Smile! It confuses people!

INDIANUL

Am auzit ca avionul cu care trebuia sa plece Bush senior prin america latina a picat fix cand trebuia sa vina sa-l ia;era foarte tulburat de asta deoarece  spune ca-i cunostea foarte bine pe membrii echipajului.asta sa fie motivul sau chestia cu "fericituuuleeee"(pentru intelegere-vedeti sectiunea de bancuri) :wink:


p.s.:daca va tot intrebati de ce scriu numele proprii cu litere mici::left shiftul meu de pe tastatura este dus si imi este foarte greu sa ma obisnuiesc sa-l folosesc pe cel drept asa ca prefer sa scriu cu litere mici;userii care isi vad nick-ul/numele scris cu litere mici sa nu se supere
ramas bun...

tapirul

mie nu imi place W. V-am spus?
cre'că, nu ştiu...

Tez

Nuuuuu........btw,asta era subiectul tezei cu care te ocupai? :lol:
You labeled me
I’ll label you
So I dub the unforgiven

tapirul

nu-mi aduce aminte de teza... O sa va povestesc dupa ce scap.
cre'că, nu ştiu...

A CERB

Quote from: tapirulmie nu imi place W. V-am spus?



:shock:  :shock:  :shock:


tot nu ai reusit sa-mi dai un singur argument care sta in picioare( scuze, i'll give you the " nucular" thing)
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

nu, n-am nevoie de nucular, mersi frumos.
Nu-mi place ca e dobitoc. Ce vrei argument mai bun?
Daca iti dau argumentele mele imi dai cu ele in cap oricum cu "get real" si alte tembelisme, asa ca...
pana la urma urmei nici tu nu mi-ai dat argumente de ce il placi, in afara de ala ca e "un om simplu" (de aia nu il plac io, ca sa vezi...). O dai cotita mereu, ai atentie seletiva (refuzi sa raspunzi) si altele.
cre'că, nu ştiu...

von Manteuffel

ce dor mi-era de topicul asta!!!!
vreau sa vad: ce va face OSCE si ce va face "prostul" de W in criza din Ucraina???
pentru ca ce ar fi facut intelectualul de Kerry mi-e clar: ar fi trimis o telegrama de felicitare lui Yanukovici.
Meine Ehre heißt Treue!

Tez

presupun ca nu va face ca-n Afganistan sau Irak,so :lol:  tot la nivel; declarativ
You labeled me
I’ll label you
So I dub the unforgiven

A CERB

am inteles ca, desi bush il are ca oaspete pe regele spaniei, a refuzat sa-l sune inapoi pe pantofaru' ala( zapatero). nu cred ca vei vedea zambete de protocol de la bush.
Smile! It confuses people!

A CERB

luci, ca raspuns la o discutie despre ANWR de pe imed, zona implicata in proiectul lui bush( pentru petrol) are o suprafata de 2000 acrii. compara cu 19 milioane suprafata totala. your liberal friends are fucked up in the head big time.
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

cervidu, tu daca incerci sa ma convingi ca odata porniti cu sapatu' in Alaska or sa se opreasca la aia 2000 de acri ma crezi mai naiv decat sunt. Sau poate tu chiar crezi sincer ca or sa se opreasca... Ha.
Pe industriasii matale conservatori ii doare in cur de specii, natura si alte prostii d'astea. Pe ei ii doare sa faca bani multi si rotunzi.
Ar fi mai sanatos daca in america s-ar finanta o campanie de cum-sa-consumi-mai putin, numa' ca asta nu aduce bani, din pacate.
Esti si tu asa orbit ca ai ajuns sa crezi de'adevaratelea ca renii o duc mai bine cu conducte de petrol prin zona...
cre'că, nu ştiu...

INDIANUL

Quote
Esti si tu asa orbit ca ai ajuns sa crezi de'adevaratelea ca renii o duc mai bine cu conducte de petrol prin zona...

ce este un ren? tot o specie de cerb... :lol:
ramas bun...

A CERB

Quote from: tapirul
Quotecervidu, tu daca incerci sa ma convingi ca odata porniti cu sapatu' in Alaska or sa se opreasca la aia 2000 de acri ma crezi mai naiv decat sunt.


in stilul asta ma mir ca mai exista foraj oriunde in lumea asta. eu propun mori de vant( dar si kerry presedinte, sa se lupte cu ele, din moment ce nu exista teroristi)





QuoteSau poate tu chiar crezi sincer ca or sa se opreasca...
Ha.

sincer? da.

Quote
Pe industriasii matale conservatori ii doare in cur de specii, natura si alte prostii d'astea.

si pe liberalii matale ii doare-n kur de caribou, dar e un pretext bun de laba.


QuoteAr fi mai sanatos daca in america s-ar finanta o campanie de cum-sa-consumi-mai putin, numa' ca asta nu aduce bani, din pacate.

nu toata lumea e japoneza, tapiru'. eu personal sunt de acord ca se consuma exagerat de mult. dar vorbim aici chestii realiste. daca cu pretul pe gallonul de benzina umflat de la 89 centi(1998) la 2.15 (2004) astia tot cumpara gas-guzzlers asta e problema lor. oamenii au dreptul sa cheltuiasca banii castigati de ei cum vrea pula lor, si nu cum vor parazitii matele liberali, care dicteaza pe banii altora pentru ca ei sunt niste loseri.

QuoteEsti si tu asa orbit ca ai ajuns sa crezi de'adevaratelea ca renii o duc mai bine cu conducte de petrol prin zona...

i hate to dissapoint you, dar asta este realitatea unde se foreaza deja( se pare ca e mai cald pe langa tevile alea, chestie care-i incanta pe caribou), daca vrei iti dau cu statistika-n trompa.
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

pai da. Cerbu nostru e mai potent intr-un gas station, nu stiati?
cre'că, nu ştiu...

elfstone

Take a look at this :):):) They're just... warming up :)

Or click here to see the cost of putting an idiot in charge :D
"I'd rather be happy than right, any day of the week"

A CERB

what's your point, elf? aclu is a bunch of fucked-up, mentally retarded, congenitally infected morons. they should all be deported to north coreea.
Smile! It confuses people!

von Manteuffel

la pariu ca John Kerry i-ar fi trimis o felicitare lui Ianukovici a doua zi dupa ce a furat alegerile?!
by the way, tot mai multe semnale dinspre Spania arata ca spaniolii care LUCREAZA incep sa regrete votul dat in martie 2004. colegii mei spanioli desi cam de stanga incep sa isi dea seama ce au facut.
citez:
QuoteOur change to the Ministry of Health was not a good idea. We have to cope with some kind of useless boss, which has not any idea of where is his right hand.
.
superba engleza spaniola, no?
Meine Ehre heißt Treue!

elfstone

Cerbu, fuck ACLU, read the damn fact... the friggin` chip is unsecure and can be read from a distance... What works for Wal-Mart (there, ACLU is indeed paranoid) is absurd for passports. It's pathetic to use 60 year old technology in a US passport and NO encryption... Ia de citeste:

The RFID passport works like a high-tech version of the children's game "Marco Polo." A reader speaks out the equivalent of "Marco" on a designated frequency. The chip then channels that radio energy and echoes back with an answer.

But instead of simply saying "Polo," the 64 Kb chip will say the passport holder's name, address, date and place of birth, and send along a digital photograph.

While none of the information on the chip is encrypted, the chip does also broadcast a digital signature that verifies the chip itself was created by the government. Security experts said the U.S. government decided not to encrypt the data because of the risks involved in sharing the method of decryption with other countries.

RFID technology has been around for more than 60 years, but has only recently become cheap enough to be adopted widely. E-Z Pass prepay toll systems across the country run on RFIDs, pets and livestock around the world have RFID implants, and businesses such as Wal-Mart plan to use the tags to track their inventory.

But Electronic Frontier Foundation attorney Lee Tien argues that RFID chips in passports are a "privacy horror" and would be even if the data was encrypted.

"If 180 countries have access to the technology for reading this thing, whether or not it is encrypted, from a security standpoint, that is a very leaky system," Tien said. "Strictly from a technology standpoint, any reader system, even with security, that was so widely deployed and accessible to so many people worldwide will be subject to some very interesting compromises."

Travel privacy expert Edward Hasbrouck argues that identity thieves are not the only ones with an interest in recording the data remotely. Commercial travel companies, including hotels, will capture the data to create commercial dossiers when people check into hotels or exchange currency in order to up-sell their customers, he argues.


E atat de simplu sa faci cititorul incat, daca iesi cu pasaportul pe strada poti fi sigur ca cineva o sa poata sa afle cine esti si unde stai fara sa iti dai seama.

EDIT: Bah.. da` ma intreb... daca invelesti pasaportul in poleiala ce se intampla? :D

EDIT 2: deci, sa nu uitam, varianta (mai costisitoare) care a fost refuzata era cea in care cipul facea ce tre` sa faca un cip -- trimitea doar date biometrice, criptate si semnate digital; pentru orice check-point asta era suficient -- era verificata identitatea posesorului,  iar orice alte date puteau fi obtinute doar de official agencies prin accesul autorizat la o baza de date securizata etc., etc...
"I'd rather be happy than right, any day of the week"

elfstone

OK, pe mine chiar streseaza rau de tot valul de stiri cu astfel de masuri "politically correct" anti-Christmans care mi se par de CACAT! N-are nimic de-a face cu interactiunea interculturala sau cu toleranta si respectul. Nu inteleg cum le vin ideile astea! Cred ca incep sa inteleg ce anume intelege cerbu prin 'liberal', iata ca nu sunt doar in US, si daca despre din astia e vorba.... fuck, he's got one thing straight: they are (not only ACLU) "a bunch of fucked-up, mentally retarded, congenitally infected morons"


http://www.reuters.com/...
http://www.boston.com/...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/...

http://www.cnsnews.com/...
http://www.abc.net.au/...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/...

http://washingtontimes.com/...




"I'd rather be happy than right, any day of the week"

cosmin

Bravo elf ca insfarsit ti-ai gasit ideologia (anti-liberalismul in definitia Cerbului 2004) care-ti va lumina de aici incolo viata.

Eu sunt probabil unul din acei fucked up, mentally retarded morons desi nu stiu daca sunt si congenitally infected (astept inca rezultatul la analize)  si bineinteles ca in prostia mea chiar sunt multumit asa cum sunt.

Pot doar sa-ti spun din propria experienta cum este sa mergi la scoala religioasa si sa fii obligat sa participi la piese religioase pt Craciun si Paste. In localitatea in care au nimerit parintii mei cand au ajuns in Olanda sunt trei scoli. Una protestanta, una catolica si una fara orientare religioasa. Eu din intamplare am nimerit la cea protestanta unde copiii, care in exclusivitate protestanti (in afara de mine) de fiecare Craciun si Pasti participau la piesele religioase care facand parte din programul scolar erau bineinteles obligatorii pentru fiecare elev (deci si eu trebuia sa iau parte).

Eu pot spune ca dupa ce am trecut prin chestiile astea stiu un lucru foarte sigur si acela este ca nu imi voi da niciodata copii la o scoala religioasa fiindca intradevar indoctrinarea lor de mici intr-o anumita religie nu are un rol prioritar in ochii mei. Daca vor avea interes pt religie si-l vor manifesta in momentul in care vor avea si capacitatea sa gandeasca lucrurile pe care le citesc. Si foarte neplacut surprins as fi daca la scoala PUBLICA la care ii voi da vor fi indoctrinati spre religia crestina, musulmana sau oricare alta, fie si prin intermediul unei piese de teatru.

Principalul este insa ca la o scoala religioasa putin ma intereseaza cat de politically correct este o piesa, atata timp cat se incadreaza in limitele legii. Atata timp cat scoala e private pot sa faca ce vor ei. In momentul in care insa scoala este publica atunci intr-o democratie moderna seculara religia dispare. Orice religie that is. In cadrul scolii publice nu isi au locul nici un fel de piese religioase tocmai fiindca statul nu este legat de nici o religie in mod special si ar fi aberant sa se organizeze pt fiecare ideologie sau religie cate o piesa de teatru.

Nu ti-am citit toate articolele dar din cele citite in principiu eram de acord cu toate. Asta cu piesele era cel mai apropiat insa de experientele mele proprii. Inca o data punctul de vedere principal: La o scoala privata religioasa faci ce vrea muschiuletul tau pe cand la o scoala de stat intr-un stat modern nu organizezi ca scoala nici o piesa religioasa, nici musulmana nici crestina.

cosmin

PS Restul articolelor le citesc si comentez maine, acum chiar trebuie sa plec.

Tez

Asta inseamna sa fii mai catolic decat Papa....
You labeled me
I’ll label you
So I dub the unforgiven


A CERB

cosmin, m-ai induiosat pana la lacrimi. eu cred ca trebuie sa pui deoparte experientele personale traumatizante din copilarie, si sa vezi lucrurile asa cum sunt.

adica faptul ca o minoritate atee( liberalii matale) terozizeaza o intreaga populatie in numele constitutionalitatii si interzic orice mentionare a ideii de Craciun in locuri publice sub pretextul imbecil ca ar putea jigni nu stiu ce vrajitoare wicca, satansistii sau alte aberatii pe care ei le numesc religii.

intamplator sarbatoarea de Craciun este national holiday. daca nu o vor, sa facem un referendum si sa o desfiintam, dar e stupid sa ai o sarbatoare de Craciun si sa nu mentionezi Craciunul( poate ideiile noatre despre stupid difera, cosmin).

nu sunt o persoana religioasa, si la biserica am fost de trei ori in ultimii cinci ani, cu ocazia unor botezuri. cred ca religia e ceva private si ca nu o poti impune. dar nici nu o poti interzice.  

nu vorbim de mersul la slujba cu forta. copiii mei vor merge la o scoala catolica, unde nu vor merge la slujba( pentru simplul motiv ca eu raman ortodox) si unde vor avea inclusiv colegi musulmani. asta e toleranta pe care o vrei tu, nu toleranta pumnului in gura. ma dezamagesti, cosmin, ideea ta de libertate pe mine ma nedumereste foarte tare.


nu stiam ca esti membru aclu si nu stiu de ce te ataca remarcile mele la adresa aclu. tu ai idee cam ce inseamna aclu?

elf, eu ti-am mai spus si in alta parte, esti mai conservator decat crezi. eu am venit aici destul de tolerant, m-au radicalizat tampeniile si nesimtirea liberala pentru ca mi-am dat seama ca nu poti fi tolerant cu astfel de pretentii, si ca daca le dai un deget iti iau o mana si un picior. mai multe in episodul viitor.
Smile! It confuses people!

manolo

hai, cerbisor, tata, ca incet, incet iti revii.

uite, ca tot se discuta pe acest topic (nu mai stiu daca aici sau dincolo) despre sex education, am dat peste un articol extrem de interesant in Washington Post. Linkul e http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56850-2004Dec11.html

Ultimele paragrafe sunt extrem de revelatoare:
"  I have no problem whatsoever with the concepts of chastity, religion or religious instruction. Each has its place, and I often bring religious views into classroom discussions because they are essential to understanding ourselves and the cultural and political landscape of American society. My problem is with religion and indoctrination masquerading as public education, and with chastity masquerading as abstinence.

And make no mistake, teenagers have a kind of built-in radar for sensing when adults are trying to manipulate them -- including those savvy 12- and 13-year-olds in my seventh-grade classroom the other day. Once they realize that what adults are telling them is in any way disingenuous, they stop listening, no matter how good that advice may be.

So let's stop calling the federal government's approach to sex instruction "abstinence-only education" and start calling it what it really is: chastity-only advocacy. And let's not expect that it will provide the kind of balanced, accurate information that our children need and deserve. "
Sa moara mama! Ba sa moara ma-ta!

A CERB

manolo, faptul ca tu vezi lumea prin prisma washington post explica nmulte despre tine.

pentru adulti deschid un topik separat, coltul conservatorului la sectiunea de injuraturi. voi posta acolo din columnisti conservatori moderati.
Smile! It confuses people!

manolo

da, e simplu, daca nu simplist sa ma bagi intr-o anumita categorie si mult mai greu (poate prea greu) sa raspunzi cu argumente la un subiect ridicat.

dar e probabil o alta reminiscenta a gandirii de genul "cine nu gandeste ca mine/noi, e tampit/prost/idiot etc".

nush daca ai observat (ca am observat ca nici macar nu citesti informatiile din linkuri inainte de a critica), dar titlul spunea ceva de genul ca adolescentii vor adopta abstinenta daca li se ofera un motiv rezonabil...
Sa moara mama! Ba sa moara ma-ta!

A CERB

nu-ti ignor bre linku, m-am mirat numai de sursa. ce spui tu akolo, cum ca aia ar prefera abstinenta dac li se ofera un motiv rezonabil e, totusi o duma.

adika sa eviti pregnancy si gonoree( ca sa nu mentionez sida) nu sunt motive suficient de rezonabile, si cum nu li se ofera alte motive, hai sa-i invatam in clasa a 5-a cum se suge pula prin batista( imi cer scuze daca vulgaritatea deranjeaza, dar hai sa spunem lucrurilor pe nume si sa nu fim mironosite), daca n-ai prezervativ. ca asta vor oamenii aia.

nu te mai lasa impresionat de cifre si procente, "majoritatea parintilor prefera" si alte labe. evident ca pot veni cu statistici imbecile in care, in functie de cum pui intrebarea, primesti raspunsurile pe care le vrei.

evident ca abstinenta e cea mai sigura metoda( duh!). ce pun oamenii aia in discutie e cat de practic e approachul asta. si nu am auzit argumente convingatoare pentru ce voi ei, numai cifre aruncate aiurea.  eu cred ca educatia sexuala trebuie lasata in seama parintilor, si ca parinte as fi foarte suparat daca mi-ar "educa" copilul la scoala.

la liceul ala gay din new york ot face ce educatie vor, dar imbecilii aia vor ca banii federali( adika banii mei de taxe) sa fie cheltuiti ca niste profesori, care sunt si asa incompetenti, sa-i invete pe copii ca e bine sa se futa, dar sa o faca cat mai sigur.

chestia asta legitimizeaza sexul la adolescenti, chestie de care nu e nevoie, si asa o gran=mada de copii care nu sunt pregatiti pentru asta sunt under peer pressure sa o faca( am o pacienta de 13 ani care e foarte stressata ca are colege active sexual si ca ea nu e, nu pentru ca ar vrea, ci pentru ca nu e "cool" daca nu se fute)

nu toti copii sunt la fel de maturi( dovada tu, manolo) si sa-i expui pe unii la informatie care creeaza confuzie e cea mai buna cale spre dezastru. aia care sunt mai maturi gasesc oricum surse de informare, doar traim in lumea internetului.

liberalii mata se poarta din nou ca un frate mai mare, ei stiu sigur cum e mai bine pentru altii si informatia nu poate veni decat de la ei. asta e foarte patronizing si condescending.
Smile! It confuses people!

manolo

din nou vezi numai ce vrei tu, lucru de care te-am acuzat nu numai eu, ci si o droaie de tapiri si lucisandori de aici si de dincolo.

in articol se spune in principal faptul ca aceasta campania, bazata pe principiul abstinence-only denatureaza datele statistice privind eficienta metodelor contraceptive. mai mult, faptul ca s-a trecut de la abstinence-only ca un mijloc pentru o sanatate mai buna la un scop in sine. Apoi faptul ca se propovaduieste (da, da, e cuvantul potrivit) abstinenta pana la casatorie. ori mie asta imi miroase a interventia bisericii in politica si educatie.

nu sunt de acord cu chestia cu interzicerea manifestarilor de Craciun in scoli si locuri publice. tocmai de aia se cheama asa, pentru ca toata lumea poate sa se manifeste.

dar nici sa imi introduci cu forta principii religioase catolice in educatia sexuala, si aia pe banii tai, dom contributor.

din nou nu ma pot opri sa nu ma mir vazand ce intelegi tu din articolul citat si ce scrie de fapt in el. dar cine stie, o fi vreo diferenta culturala, intre American english vorbita in US si American English vorbita p-acilea prin Evropa...
Sa moara mama! Ba sa moara ma-ta!

A CERB

manolo, tu nu ai cum sa intelegi ce vor sa spuna oamenii aia decat in context, care tie iti lipseste. luat ca atare, articolul ala e coerent si are sens. ce se intampla in realitate e ce ma deranjeaza pe mine.

principiile catolice de care te plangi tu sunt, de fapt, idei de morala si de bun simt, care nu au nici o legatura cu indocrinarea religioasa. iti place tie sau nu, in societatea occidentala ne ghidam de vreo 2000 de ani dupa idei crestine. altfel ne insuram toti cu fetite de 9 ani ca in africa ecuatoriala.

in legatura cu eficienta, uiti in mod foarte elegant ca, de exemplu, singura metoda prin care s-a limitat extinderea sida in africa este ABSINENTA. iar uganda( unde sunt crestinii aia care iti put tie) este singura tara care a reusit treaba asta. in zimbabwe speranta de viata a scazut sub 30 de ani( adica apropiata de aia de pe vremea imperiulu roman)

eu nu spun ca approachul nu e simplist si ca nu ignora o stare de fapt( ca mai multi adolescenti sunt activi sexual, si ca sexul oral si anal sunt foarte prevalente in us high schools).

eu spun numai ca celalat approach, prin care se pseudonormalizeaza starea aia de fapt si se legitimizeaza sexul in licee este insane. inca o data, ori ii educa familia, ori se educa singuri( aia care vor). informatia abunda pe internet. nu vad de ce fetite de clasa a 5-a trebuie sa invete fortat sa puna prezervativ pe banane. tu ma poti ilumina in problema asta?

pe de-o parte promoveaza educatia sexuala a copiilor fara acordul parintilor, pe de alta vor sa impuna posibilitatea avortului la minore  tot fara stirea parintilor, adica au gasit rezolvarea la tot.

hai s-o dam in pizda ma-sii de familie, sa ne dam toti copii sa fie crescuti de stat, ca doar statul stie mai bine. problema e ca toti americanii astia avizi de komunism habar n-au ce inseamna komunism. de-aia spun ca trebuie deportati in coreea, sau macar sa petreaca o vacanta de neuitat.
Smile! It confuses people!

von Manteuffel

Quoteca sexul oral si anal sunt foarte prevalente in us high schools
mama ce tara fericita! la noi toate colegele de clasa in liceu au dat bac-ul virgine... :(  :(  :(
Meine Ehre heißt Treue!

Tez

Sa va fie rusine.... :oops:
You labeled me
I’ll label you
So I dub the unforgiven

cosmin

A Cerbe, incerc pe scurt sa mai mentionez punctele care dupa mine sunt principale in cazul asta.

- daca statul este intradevar modern si nu e afiliat cu nici o religie atunci intradevar nu ar trebui sa existe nici un fel de afirmatie religioasa din partea lui. (O problema intervine intradevar dupa cum ai zis si tu in momentul in care o sarbatoare religioasa este din anumite motive istorice si sarbatoare nationala. In cazul acesta statul ar trebui sa ofere fonduri si pt organizarea a altor sarbatori din cadrul altor religii, cum ar fi pt a agata beculete sau mai stiu eu ce.)

- scolile publice nu ar trebui sa organizeze nici un fel de evenimente care au de a face cu religia. In schimb daca anumiti copii vor sa organizeze ei ceva de genul asta ar trebui sa aiba toti acelasi sprijin din partea scolilor, bineanteles in limita legii.

- scolile religioase pot organiza orice evenimente vor ele sa organizeze atata timp cat raman in limitele legii.

- intr-un magazin, intr-o vitrina, in propria ta casa sau gradina ar trebui sa poti sa agati orice vrei tu atata timp cat nu incalci legea. Cei care se impotrivesc ca un magazin privat sa-si expuna in vitrina un pom de Craciun, nu sunt nici liberali, nici conservatori ci doar tampiti.

PS: Nu fac parte din ACLA dar cu unele lucruri pe care ei le sustin eu sunt foarte de acord. De asta am zis ca sunt unul din cretinii mentionati mai sus.

A CERB

Quote from: cosminA Cerbe, incerc pe scurt sa mai mentionez punctele care dupa mine sunt principale in cazul asta.
Quote
- daca statul este intradevar modern si nu e afiliat cu nici o religie atunci intradevar nu ar trebui sa existe nici un fel de afirmatie religioasa din partea lui. (O problema intervine intradevar dupa cum ai zis si tu in momentul in care o sarbatoare religioasa este din anumite motive istorice si sarbatoare nationala. In cazul acesta statul ar trebui sa ofere fonduri si pt organizarea a altor sarbatori din cadrul altor religii, cum ar fi pt a agata beculete sau mai stiu eu ce.)

de acord, deja expun si menorah, mai scriu ceva si de ramadan si de kwanzaa( whatever that means). unde tragi linia, totusi?

Quote- scolile publice nu ar trebui sa organizeze nici un fel de evenimente care au de a face cu religia. In schimb daca anumiti copii vor sa organizeze ei ceva de genul asta ar trebui sa aiba toti acelasi sprijin din partea scolilor, bineanteles in limita legii.

si cu asta sunt de acord, dar aici toti sunt asa de terorizati ca ii da in judecata ACLU ca interzic orice fel se mentiune a oricarui simbol religios pe hospital grounds( retine ca nu vorbim de bani publici)

-
Quotescolile religioase pot organiza orice evenimente vor ele sa organizeze atata timp cat raman in limitele legii.
evident
Quote
- intr-un magazin, intr-o vitrina, in propria ta casa sau gradina ar trebui sa poti sa agati orice vrei tu atata timp cat nu incalci legea. Cei care se impotrivesc ca un magazin privat sa-si expuna in vitrina un pom de Craciun, nu sunt nici liberali, nici conservatori ci doar tampiti.

de acord ca sunt tampiti dar sunt niste tampiti terorizati.  pe mine ma doare extremismul brainwashingului si frica de a ura altuia " merry christmas" si a fi considerat politically incorect.

aici au ajuns la extreme cretine, such as "merry x-mas" sau X-ING( la intersectii)care  inseamna de fapt "crossing", doar ca imbecilii din municipalitatea respectiva nu vor sa aiba nici o mentiune de cruce. cat de brainwashed poti fi?

QuotePS: Nu fac parte din ACLA dar cu unele lucruri pe care ei le sustin eu sunt foarte de acord. De asta am zis ca sunt unul din cretinii mentionati mai sus.

cosmin, eu cred ca tu esti mult mai moderat decat ACLU. aclu tropaie peste liberatile individuale sub pretextul ca le apara pe alea civil. au incetat de mult sa reprezinte oamenii normali si bunul simt impotriva unor opresori atotputernici si s-au transformat ei insisi in opresori. asta e influenta nociva a puterii, toti suntem oameni( filmul ala cu lord of the rings nu e asa tampit)
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

din partea ailalta...

James Dobson, a Christian-Right activist face niste declaratii care cam stir up media. A video starring a kid's icon such as SpongeBob could actually be used to promote homosexuality among kids.

Quote..What Dobson did say, in a speech last week in Washington during an event sponsored by the Family Research Council, was that SpongeBob is one of 100 popular animated characters that may have been co-opted by an innocuous-sounding group to promote acceptance of homosexuality to children. The group, the We Are Family Foundation, has produced a video slated for distribution to 61,000 public and private elementary schools; it features SpongeBob, Big Bird, Barney and others singing the old disco hit "We Are Family" and spreading a message of "diversity and unity."

http://www.family.org/cforum/feature/a0035309.cfm

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/focus_on_the_family/

http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/TV/01/20/sponge.bob.reut/

nu e cam penibil, cerbu?
cre'că, nu ştiu...

A CERB

nu e penibil deloc, dobson e un tip foarte destept. el se ia de poponarii aia, nu neaparat de spongebob. liberalii matale vor sa-l ridiculizeze cu treaba asta, dar cine l-a auzit vorbind stie mai bine.
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

da bre, dar sa vezi poponari pe peste tot nu mi se pare cine stie ce desteptaciune. Nu zic, omu o fi destept, dar asta nu il fereste de a sustine penibilitati. Daca te scremi un pic poti sa vezi liberali promovand homosexualii si in misiunea asta pe Titan. Probabil ca Dobson nu vrea decat sa dea in ailalta organizatie cu familiie. Kilu' crocodilu', fondatoru' lu' Focus on Family se ia de Family Research Council. Mie imi suna a paruiala intre concurentii pe piata de ceapa la Matache.
cre'că, nu ştiu...

A CERB

tapi, vorbeste gura fara tine si faci ce spui tu ca fac eu cu mm, numai ca diferenta e ca dobson e un tip foartte decent. vezi ca ascris recent si o carte despre cum sa-ti cresti copii.i say give him the benefit of the doubt before smearing him.
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

ha. Imi ceri mie sa ii dau lui dobson the benefit of the doubt dupa ce tu il faci in toate felurile pe mm fara ca macar sa-i fi citit un diftong. Nu, nu vorbeste gura fara mine. Io combat, cum am spus, argumentele tale.. Ai zis initial ca dobson e destept - te cred. Dar si mm e destept si vadim tudor e destept. Asta nu ii face sa aiba neaparat dreptate, sau sa nu fie penibili. Acu' o sucisi ca e "decent" (ce o fi insemnand si aia..). Si ma refeream numai la declaratia cu spongebobu (cu tot videoclipu, de fapt). El zice ca "ar fi posibil sa",
Quotewas that SpongeBob is one of 100 popular animated characters that may have been co-opted by an innocuous-sounding group to promote acceptance of homosexuality to children.
in stilu asta, am zis, orice ar fi posibil sa, including using sonda Huygens de catre neo-nazi din Tadjikistan. Mie mi se pare penibila tentativa lui de a se lua cu orice pret de o actiune a "concurentii" pe baza lu' "s-ar putea". So again, nu am comentat omu dobson, ci actiunea lu' dobson. Pentru asta nu tre' sa il cunosc pe dobson si sa stiu cat de decent e (daca e decent cu atat mai rau pentru el).

O fi scris o carte despre cum sa cresti copiii, si? Nu o sa imi cresc copiii crestin-de-dreapta, thank you, asa ca nu ma intereseaza cartea lui. Am propria lista de carti despre cum sa iti cresti copiii.
cre'că, nu ştiu...

A CERB

esti tembel, nu vad nimic rau in citatul ala. mai citeste-l o data.
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

cre'că, nu ştiu...

lucisandor

Daca tot sint intr-o vizita scurta, o sa remarc cele 27 de mentionari ale libertatii in discursul de inaugurare al lui Bush, sub formele "liberty", "freedom" si "liberty and freedom" (eu nu stiu; e vreo deosebire intre ele?). De asemenea, Rice a vorbit in zilele de audiere despre libertate ca despre scopul administratiei Bush.
Este curios ca avem aceste discutii despre homosexuali, despre casatoriile lor, despre cum infecteaza ei copiii, care pica in capcana lor, desi homosexualitatea este ne-naturala, si despre cum le-am interzice noi daca am avea putere si despre cum Bush vrea sa le interzica prin amendamente la constitutie. Daca nu e libertate acasa, ce rahat maninca asta despre libertatea irakienilor sau a romanilor? (va reamintesc ca la vizita lui Bush la Buc. a existat un singur protestatar anti-razboi si, inca dinainte de a se apropia, ala a fost arestat, ilegal etc.etc.)
Alegerile din Irak sint o mascarada ... pe linga faptul ca cetatenii nu stiu mai nimic despre candidati, regula ca o treime sa fie femei a dus la situatia haioasa ca zeci de candidati nu vor nici ...sa isi arate fata. Partea interesanta, ca la un meci de fotbal in direct, unde nu stii scorul, este: 1. pe cine au decis deja americanii ca a cistigat? (sau credeati ca Kharzai a iesit pe bune?) 2. cum or sa ii mai schimbe pe cei cazuti in dizgratie, asa cum s-a mai intimplat cu administratia temporara, in care s-a vazut, si cei mai colaborationisti isi urmaresc in primul rind inteersul personal (aaaa... exista pretextul masinii capcana).
Si apropos de interdictii, pe asta o propun eu: cind se va opri mutilarea baieteilor in tara aia primitiva, USA?

A CERB

mutilarea baietilor e la alegerea parintilor.

eu zic ca te hazardezi cu irak, daca tot au avut azi alegeri( discutabil ce spui tu akolo), hai sa vedem ce iese din treaba asta.

indiferent de libertatile pe care spu tu ca nu le au americanii, ce treaba are asta cu kakatzi gen taliban sau saddam, sau kim? nu prea inteleg, poate logica mea e twisted.

in legatura cu omu ala arestat ilegal, asta e in romania, aici au facut urat la inaugurare si, in afara de dushul meritat, nu le-a facut nimeni nimic, iar dusul s-a intamplat pentru ca erau agresivi.
Smile! It confuses people!

tapirul

Quote from: cervidpoate logica mea e twisted.
you start to see the light.
cre'că, nu ştiu...

elfstone

Quotemutilarea baietilor e la alegerea parintilor.

Maybe The Worst argument I've ever read. N-are sens sa incep, daca nu pricepi de ce, logicile noastre sunt complet necoplanare.

Edit: Oricum, nu sunt de acord la faza cu libertatea lui lucisandor. Eu nu cred in basme; fireste ca lucrurile oscileaza intre diverse extreme. Atata vreme cat intelegem e bine ca lucrurile sa mearga imperfect e bine. De cate ori s-a apucat careva sa repare tot pentru toti, a iesti dezastru. Eu unul cred ca Bush  o sa il cam dezamageasca in unele puncte pe cerbu in mandatul asta. Spre bucuria mea :D
"I'd rather be happy than right, any day of the week"

A CERB

poate n-am inteles eu bine, dar am crezut ca se referea la circumcizie.

bush m-a dezamagit deja la capitolul imigratie ilegala. pe de alta parte, impinge legislatie pentru limitarea procesomaniei, si asta ma bucura in mod deosebit. in rest, chestiile care va fac pe voi sa spumegati ma cam lasa rece, inclusiv problema iranului.
Smile! It confuses people!

lucisandor

Super smen la bugetul lui Bush. Ca sa "taie cheltuielile", se taie pe bune vreo 50 de programe educationale (a caror valoare era chestionabila si pentru mine), dar... super strategie... cheltuielile cu cele 2 ocupatii nu sunt prevazute in buget. Morala: fondurile vor fi cerute in afara bugetului, ca de obicei, iar deficitul real va fi acelasi sau chiar mai mare; taierile de programe nu sint facute pentru scaderea deficitului.

A CERB

ba da, bre, altfel deficitul ar fi mai mare :wink:
Smile! It confuses people!

lucisandor

Pai deficitul real e acelasi, indif daca il trece in buget sau cere trimestrial cite 70 de miliarde pntru razboi. Singurul lucru care e mai  mic e deficitul de pe hirtie.
Imi pare bine ca le- trage agricultorilor... sa vada si 'mnealor americanii ca numai in socialism vacile asculta Brahms si ca in capitalism se traieste mishto ca plugar (intrebati-i pe brazilienii care va dau citrice la super-market, traiesc mai prost decit sclava Isaura). In definitiv, povestea cu outsourcingul trebuia sa se intimple intii la cereale - nu trebuie sa outsource-uiesti in India ca sa gasesti baieti cu facultate si cu engleza buna ca sa iti are pamintul, merge si in Laos. Si o data cu outsourcing-ul, vine si scaderea salariilor.
Si ce mi-a mai placut la faza cu subventiile agricole? Ca de ele beneficiaza (beneficia) sulimea care l-a votat pe W.

manolo

more on the deficit:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6936733/

"Bush agenda would boost government
Some conservatives concerned about federal reach
By Jim VandeHei
Updated: 11:49 p.m. ET Feb. 8, 2005

President Bush's second-term agenda would expand not only the size of the federal government but also its influence over the lives of millions of Americans by imposing new national restrictions on high schools, court cases and marriages.

In a clear break from Republican campaigns of the 1990s to downsize government and devolve power to the states, Bush is fostering what amounts to an era of new federalism in which the national government shapes, not shrinks, programs and institutions to comport with various conservative ideals, according to Republicans inside and outside the White House.

Bush is calling for new federal accountability and testing requirements for all public high schools, after imposing similar mandates on grades three through eight during his first term. To limit lawsuits against businesses and professionals, he is proposing to put a federal cap on damage awards for medical malpractice, to force class-action cases into federal courts and to help create a national settlement of outstanding asbestos-related cases.

On social policy, the president is pushing a constitutional amendment to outlaw same-sex marriage in the states and continuing to define and expand the federal government's role in encouraging religious groups to help administer social programs such as community drug-rehabilitation efforts.

"We have moved from devolution, which was just pushing back as much power as possible to the states, back to where government is limited but active," said John Bridgeland, director of Bush's domestic policy council in the first term. Bridgeland and current White House officials see Bush's governing philosophy as a smart way to modernize the government, empower individuals and broaden the appeal of the GOP.

Bush maintains a stated desire to streamline the government. On Monday, he sent Congress a budget that would eliminate or consolidate 150 programs. But a growing number of conservatives are uneasy with what they deride as "big-government conservatism."

"He keeps expanding the federal involvement into state and local affairs," said Chris Edwards, a tax and budget expert at the Cato Institute, a think tank that often supports the president's agenda. "My hope would be that there would be an electoral rebuke of big [-government] Republicans like there was when the tectonic plates shifted in 1994."

Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.), said: "The Republican majority, left to its own devices from 1995 to 2000, was a party committed to limited government and restoring the balances of federalism with the states. Clearly, President Bush has had a different vision, and that vision has resulted in education and welfare policies that have increased the size and scope of government."

'A non-starter'
Pence, an influential leader of House conservatives, said 50 Republicans gathered in Baltimore this past week and discussed, among other things, an overwhelming desire to protest the expansion of government by opposing Bush's education plan for high school students. While only 33 House Republicans opposed the No Child Left Behind law in the first term, Pence predicted that a significantly larger number will vote against expanding the program to cover high schools. Michael Franc of the Heritage Foundation, a pro-Bush think tank, agreed. "It's a non-starter" in the minds of a large number of Republicans, he said.

In many ways, Bush is simply accelerating the trend toward a bigger, more activist government that was started early in his presidency. Bush not only greatly expanded the federal education system with the No Child Left Behind law, but he also signed the largest expansion of Medicare benefits when he added prescription drug coverage to the program in 2003. The Medicare plan alone is now estimated to cost at least $720 billion over the next decade. Reacting to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Bush created the Department of Homeland Security, provided the federal government broad surveillance powers through the USA Patriot Act, and requested a significantly larger national defense budget.

All of this is a far cry from Republican dogma circa 1995 -- the year of the Republican Revolution. Back then, GOP leaders from Sen. Robert J. Dole (Kan.) to House Speaker Newt Gingrich (Ga.) talked of eliminating entire Cabinet departments, including Education, shrinking government, and returning power to the states and the people.

"If I have one goal for the 104th Congress, it is this: that we will dust off the 10th Amendment and restore it to its rightful place in the Constitution," then-Senate Majority Leader Dole said in his first speech of January 1995. "We will continue in our drive to return power to our states and our people." Republicans talked of devolution, ending "unfunded mandates" and killing government programs with the same zeal they reserve today for fighting terrorists and restructuring Social Security.

In some areas, Bush has moved to reduce the size of government. The president signed three tax cuts into law in the first term, shrinking government receipts; held non-defense discretionary spending to a nominal increase in last year's budget; and is calling for similar austerity in this year's budget.

More spending, bigger deficits
Even so, spending -- and budget deficits -- have exploded under Bush. The government spent $2.3 trillion and ran a $412 billion deficit in 2004, compared with the $1.8 trillion it spent and the $86 billion surplus it ran in the final full year of the Clinton administration.

Despite the deep cuts in domestic programs in Bush's budget, his second-term agenda is focused more on rethinking than shrinking the federal government's role. Even the president's plan to create individual Social Security accounts, billed as providing Americans more control over their retirements, would require a bigger bureaucracy to administer.

Pence said the only reason Republicans have not paid a political price for overseeing a huge growth in government has been the failure of Democrats to field a deficit hawk as a presidential candidate and to capitalize on the public appetite for smaller government. "I think to the extent Republicans depart from the historic commitment, we do so at our peril."

Yet most of Pence's colleagues have not fought Bush's expansion of the federal government. They recently rejected budget rules that could help slow spending and voted in large numbers for the entire Bush agenda over the past four years. A large majority supports Bush's plans to grow the federal role over lawsuits, marriages and other social policies.

Bush, never seen as a big fan of shrinking government, has chosen to redefine the Republican Party as more activist, "compassionate" and committed to providing individuals a lift through government policies, aides say. In doing so, he often pushes policies that require conservatives to sacrifice one principle to accomplish another.

Consider education and lawsuits. To win tough testing standards and impose accountability, two goals of many conservatives, Bush pushed through a huge increase in education spending and expanded the federal government's power to police schools, two ideas that would have been viewed by Republicans as heresy a decade ago.

As for lawsuits, Bush and most Republicans support a federal cap on punitive damages in medical liability cases -- which would usurp the power of states -- to create a freer, less costly and more predictable marketplace for doctors and consumers. Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), who was first elected to the House in 1994, calls this anathema to the GOP's states'-rights philosophy.
Š 2005 The Washington Post Company"

Compassionate my ass!
Sa moara mama! Ba sa moara ma-ta!

manolo

ia sa vedem noi cat de interesat era nea W. in ceea ce priveste al Quaida si securitatea americanilor. celebrul memo al lui Richard Clark, scris in 25 ianuarie si adresat lui tanti Condie, a fost dat publicitatii. In el se explica intiderea retelei si se cerea de urgenta o intalnire cu Presedintele. Care a avut loc. Pe 4 septembrie 2001.

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/index.htm

Redau un singur pasaj, din cadrul lucrarilor Comisiei Parlamentare 9/11, care spune multe despre cum vedea W. trebusoara asta cu terorismul...
"TIMOTHY ROEMER, Commission Member: OK. With my 15 minutes, let's move into the Bush administration.

On January 25th, we've seen a memo that you've written to Dr. Rice urgently asking for a principals' review of Al Qaida. You include helping the Northern Alliance, covert aid, significant new '02 budget authority to help fight Al Qaida and a response to the USS Cole. You attach to this document both the Delenda Plan of 1998 and a strategy paper from December 2000.

Do you get a response to this urgent request for a principals meeting on these? And how does this affect your time frame for dealing with these important issues?

CLARKE: I did get a response, and the response was that in the Bush administration I should, and my committee, counterterrorism security group, should report to the deputies committee, which is a sub-Cabinet level committee, and not to the principals and that, therefore, it was inappropriate for me to be asking for a principals' meeting. Instead, there would be a deputies meeting.

ROEMER: So does this slow the process down to go to the deputies rather than to the principals or a small group as you had previously done?

CLARKE: It slowed it down enormously, by months. First of all, the deputies committee didn't meet urgently in January or February. Then when the deputies committee did meet, it took the issue of Al Qaida as part of a cluster of policy issues, including nuclear proliferation in South Asia, democratization in Pakistan, how to treat the various problems, including narcotics and other problems in Afghanistan, and launched on a series of deputies meetings extending over several months to address Al Qaida in the context of all of those inter-related issues. That process probably ended, I think in July of 2001. So we were ready for a principals meeting in July. But the principals calendar was full and then they went on vacation, many of them in August, so we couldn't meet in August, and therefore the principals met in September."

Domne, cum sa intrerupi tu ditamai concediul din Texas a lui W. pentru o chestiune atat de caduca precum al Quaida? Nesimtit Clarke asta... Zau asa!
Sa moara mama! Ba sa moara ma-ta!

A CERB

manolo, lamureste-ma si pe mmine, ca aici vad ca preiei atitudincea schizofrenika a lu oldfart. ori bush e incompetent si nu a dat atentie la al queda, ori al queda nu exista si 9-11 a fost o mare minciuna? hai sa fim constanti putin, devine confuzant, zau asha.
Smile! It confuses people!

manolo

confuzand esti tu. mai ales ca le amesteci. eu zic ca e clar din ce am postat acolo ca lui W. putin i-a pasat de problema, el avea o singura tinta: Iraq. Si adu-ti aminte ca in timp ce baietii cu informatiile incercau sa ajunga la el, W. era in concediu in Texas (unul din cele mai lungi concedii ale unui presedinte) si taia copaci, facea plimbari cu catelul etc.

asadar, eu nu amestec nimic. W. a ignorat raportul, l-a trimis pe autor sa discute cu functionarasii de mana a doua, in timp ce el isi plimba palaria sub soarele texan.
Sa moara mama! Ba sa moara ma-ta!

manolo

baiat de sticla W. asta! dupa ce a fost primul presedinte care de Inauguration Day 2001 s-a adapostit in limuzina blindata, ca sa nu il atinga ouale americanilor de pe margine, iata ca nici la 4 ani dupa nu prea coaie sa dea fata cu TOTI americanii:

WASHINGTON POST: Some Barred From Bush's North Dakota Speech

"Not everyone was welcome, apparently, at President Bush's speech in North Dakota yesterday.

The Fargo Forum reported that a city commissioner, a liberal radio producer, a deputy Democratic campaign manager and a number of university professors were among more than 40 area residents who were barred from attending the Bush event. Their names were on a list supplied to workers at two ticket distribution sites.

The "Bush blacklist" is "frightening," Tom Athans, chief executive of Democracy Radio, said after learning that a producer for the liberal "Ed Schultz Show" was among those barred. "To blacklist a local citizen because he produces a radio program at odds with the political agenda of the White House is dangerous for democracy."

City Commissioner Linda Coates, whose husband was also on the list, told the newspaper that the list "is very revealing as to what this administration is all about."

The White House said the list may have come from volunteers; it did not come from the White House." [Washington Post, 2/04/05]"

W, Condy, oameni cu sange in instalatii, nu gluma! Mai ramane sa aflam ca are si sosie, precum Ceausescu si de aici calea e deschisa!

Apropo, de ce in bugetul de 2,5 trilioane nu e cuprins si bugetul pentru operatiunile din Iraq?
Sa moara mama! Ba sa moara ma-ta!

lucisandor

Tara tuturor libertatilor loveste din nou, re-oferind dreptul la pantaloni cu talie joasa, drept furat pe ascuns de jihadisti ticalosi. Un nou semn ca America are grija de libertate, mai ales cind ii vine gindul sa isi ia singura libertatile.
http://www.ziua.net/display.php?id=4057&data=2005-02-14
QuoteUn proiect de lege din statul american Virginia care prevedea amendarea persoanelor care poarta pantaloni cu talie foarte joasa nu va intra in vigoare, fiind respins de Senat. Proiectul fusese adoptat marti de camera inferioara a Parlamentului statului Virginia, insa o comisie a Senatului a votat unanim impotriva adoptarii sale, la sfarsitul saptamanii.
Autorul proiectului, democratul Algie T. Howell, a aratat ca moda pantalonilor cu talie atat de joasa incat lasa sa se vada lenjeria intima este "obscena si indecenta".
Freedom, liberty, freedom!

manolo

behooold, the great thinker DubluVeu!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6965084/

Bush could leave budgetary landmine
Deficits projected to grow after he leaves office
Updated: 10:57 p.m. ET Feb. 13, 2005

By Jonathan Weisman and Peter Baker - For President Bush, the budget sent to Congress last week outlines a painful path to meeting his promise to bring down the federal budget deficit by the time he leaves office in 2009. But for the senators and governors already jockeying to succeed him, the numbers released in recent days add up to a budgetary landmine that could blow up just as the next president moves into the Oval Office.

Congress and the White House have become adept at passing legislation with hidden long-term price tags, but those huge costs began coming into view in Bush's latest spending plan. Even if Bush succeeds in slashing the deficit in half in four years, as he has pledged, his major policy prescriptions would leave his successor with massive financial commitments that begin rising dramatically the year he relinquishes the White House, according to an analysis of new budget figures.

Bush's extensive tax cuts, the new Medicare prescription drug benefit and, if it passes, his plan to redesign Social Security all balloon in cost several years from now. His plan to partially privatize Social Security, for instance, would cost a total of $79.5 billion in the last two budgets that Bush will propose as president and an additional $675 billion in the five years that follow. New Medicare figures likewise show the cost almost twice as high as originally estimated, largely because it mushrooms long after the Bush presidency.

"It's almost like you've got a budget, and you've got a shadow budget coming in behind that's a whole lot more expensive," said Philip G. Joyce, professor of public policy at George Washington University.

By the time the next president comes along, some analysts said, not only will there be little if any flexibility for any new initiatives, but the entire four-year term could be spent figuring out how to accommodate the long-range cost of Bush's policies.

"That president would have to face a very fundamental decision as to whether he would want to do what was right and be a one-term president or continue to play the same game and push it onto his successor," said Leon E. Panetta, who served as budget director and later White House chief of staff under President Bill Clinton. "That's really the choice that's going to face the next president."

The knowledge of what's ahead is hardly lost on some of those eyeing Bush's job. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) has been among those raising concerns about the long-term costs of current financial policies.

'Expensive chickens'
"Hopefully some very difficult decisions will be addressed between now and the time we have a new White House resident so that occupant isn't faced with some very expensive chickens coming home to roost," said John Weaver, a McCain adviser. "There are some things that we can do, but unfortunately in the political world kicking down the road is often seen as leadership."

Bush advisers argue that he is tackling problems long ducked by other presidents and that his solutions will pay off in the long run. Joshua B. Bolten, director of the White House Office of Management and Budget, predicted last week that making the Bush tax cuts permanent could have positive economic consequences that would mitigate their costs. And he expressed hope that the Medicare prescription drug law may still result in health care savings not captured in the current cost estimates.

As for Social Security, Bush aides said that the president's plan would wipe out a long-term structural deficit facing the nation in coming decades and that the transition costs in the next decade or so will ultimately be overshadowed by the benefits. "People in the future are going to benefit from that decision," said budget office spokesman Chad Kolton.

If Congress were to pass Bush's Social Security plan and permanently extend his tax cuts, the budget deficit would bottom out at $251 billion in 2008, then climb steadily to $335 billion by 2015, according to an analysis by The Washington Post and the House Budget Committee's Democratic staff. Those figures assume, however, that Bush will secure all of his proposed spending cuts, that he will need no more emergency war spending and that there will be no changes to the alternative minimum tax, which Bush and other politicians want to rewrite to keep it from affecting more middle-class families in coming years. The AMT originally was designed to make sure wealthy people couldn't avoid paying some taxes.

With a fix to the AMT, deficits in a decade would likely reach $650 billion to $700 billion, said Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.). "The days of being everything to everybody are quickly coming to a close," he said, adding that a permanent extension of the Bush tax cuts would make it politically impossible to borrow the full cost of a Social Security fix. "We have to look at the deficit in a holistic way."

'Just can't last'
The White House's own 10-year costs of the Medicare drug benefit, the president's tax cuts and the plan for personal Social Security accounts are beginning to jar Republicans into rethinking the budget's trajectory, Graham said.

June O'Neill, a Republican former director of the Congressional Budget Office, agreed that the current trajectory is no longer sustainable. "I don't think that people should waste too much time on probing the details of current policy, which just can't last," she said.

"I think some adjustments need to be made," said Don Nickles, the recently retired Republican chairman of the Senate Budget Committee. Nickles said the drug law will need to be reopened to address problems of skyrocketing costs. He also said that Congress will have to be selective in extending the tax cuts, dropping some of the cuts and perhaps modifying the estate tax repeal to keep some of the revenue.

The looming problems were easily foreseeable, said Joyce, the public policy professor. The White House and Congress vowed last year to keep the 10-year cost of a prescription drug bill to $400 billion. But to do it, the 2004 law did not come fully into effect until 2006. Hence, legislation once priced below $400 billion over 10 years now will cost at least $724 billion over a decade, simply because the law would then be fully in effect.

Tax cuts approved in 2001 and 2003 were held to $1.7 trillion through an array of slow phase-ins, phase-outs and a Dec. 31, 2010, end date when all of the tax cuts would vanish. Now, Bush wants them made permanent, but according to White House numbers, a five-year extension beyond 2010 would cost nearly $1.1 trillion.

Likewise, Bush is proposing a Social Security restructuring that would cost $754 billion through 2015, including added interest costs for the government. But like the tax cuts and drug benefit, the proposal would begin slowly, with initial borrowing in 2009. The plan would be fully effective in 2011. Rep. John M. Spratt Jr. (S.C.), the ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee, told Treasury Secretary John W. Snow on Wednesday that the first full 10 years of the program would cost $1.4 trillion, rising to $3.5 trillion in the second decade.

One tax proposal alone underscores the problem. A Bush plan to establish broad new tax-free savings accounts would actually raise $17 billion in the first five years, as savers cash out other tax-free accounts, pay taxes on their withdrawals and roll the money into the new accounts. But in the second five years, the proposal would cost $15 billion, according to Treasury figures. And the cost would rise sharply from there, as the accounts began shielding virtually all American savers from capital-gains, dividend and interest taxation.

"That's a time bomb," said James Horney, a budget analyst at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

Congress has long gamed the budget system to make its legislation look less expensive in the short run, Joyce said. But the scale of the drug benefit, the tax cuts, the new tax proposals and the Social Security plan are unprecedented.

Their coming convergence would be a "budgetary perfect storm," Joyce said. "You can't hide from it forever."
Š 2005 The Washington Post Company"

Adicatelea, na, Hillaro, vrei presedinte? Las ca iti las eu scaunul cald! Fierbinte chiar, de nu poti sa stai mai mult de 4 ani!
Sa moara mama! Ba sa moara ma-ta!

A CERB

sunteti amandoi in ceata, va las ku bucuriile voastre, sper sa va vina mintea la kap in final.
Smile! It confuses people!

arima

speri degeaba :lol:
the show must go on

A CERB

shtiu, sunt un optimist inkorijibil...
Smile! It confuses people!

lucisandor

Cerbule, sus pantalonii! Senatorii te vede!

A CERB

lasa-i bre sa-mi vada bloomershii valentine ku inimioare.
Smile! It confuses people!

INDIANUL

Quote from: A CERBmanolo, lamureste-ma si pe mmine, ca aici vad ca preiei atitudincea schizofrenika a lu oldfart. ori bush e incompetent si nu a dat atentie la al queda, ori al queda nu exista si 9-11 a fost o mare minciuna? hai sa fim constanti putin, devine confuzant, zau asha.
daca as fi convins ca macar o litera din ce spui tu nu ar fi spus de unul care are probleme cu viza Sua as avea o tentativa de discutie cu tine;asa toate discutiile sunt sortite sa ajunga la niste posturi din partea ta cu ochii ficsi, falcile inclestate si debitand o idee mecanic precum un casetofon fara nici un argument propriu ci toate preluate din tara care te-a "adoptat".

nu am mai intrat de ceva timp pe forum dar observ ca-ti lipsesc ingrozitor si ocup in viata ta un loc de frunte incat imi duci lipsa neincetat;eu lipsesc dar tu in creierul tau iti creezi imagini ale mele si esti convins ca inca te certi cu mine neobservand ca am tacut de ceva timp si te lupti de unul singur cu fantasmele propriei minti.
ramas bun...

A CERB

aberezi amigo! get a grip!
Smile! It confuses people!

A CERB

Quote from: lucisandorTara tuturor libertatilor loveste din nou, re-oferind dreptul la pantaloni cu talie joasa, drept furat pe ascuns de jihadisti ticalosi. Un nou semn ca America are grija de libertate, mai ales cind ii vine gindul sa isi ia singura libertatile.
http://www.ziua.net/display.php?id=4057&data=2005-02-14
QuoteUn proiect de lege din statul american Virginia care prevedea amendarea persoanelor care poarta pantaloni cu talie foarte joasa nu va intra in vigoare, fiind respins de Senat. Proiectul fusese adoptat marti de camera inferioara a Parlamentului statului Virginia, insa o comisie a Senatului a votat unanim impotriva adoptarii sale, la sfarsitul saptamanii.
Autorul proiectului, democratul Algie T. Howell, a aratat ca moda pantalonilor cu talie atat de joasa incat lasa sa se vada lenjeria intima este "obscena si indecenta".
Freedom, liberty, freedom!


regarding the above paragraph, i think it's time you exited the teenager's fantasy and see the reality. it's not about slim, deeply tanned chicks that show the sacral cute tatoo by wearing lo-cut jeans. the reality is you get to see obese teens( males and females) that show you the butt crack while wearing dirty lo-cuts and that, my liberal friends, is disgusting and offensive. and has nothing to do with liberty. it has more to do with ( the unthinkable, the horrific) decency.but what's decency got to do with liberals? i guess not a thing.

you've been reading too much playboy!
Smile! It confuses people!

lucisandor

Ura! Freedom, liberty, freedom! Idei demne de copilaria lui Eminem (grasii e rai) puse in aceeasi oala cu idei conservatoare..
Amu', te-ai gindit? Dar daca eu sint gras (cred ca ai uitat asta, dar am mai zis ca lupt cu chilele) si o sa te vizitez cind o sa ajung acolo? O sa imi zici sa trag pantalonii?
Adevarul e ca nu sint mai gras decit voi si in momentul in care o sa va vizitez o sa va pun eu pe voi sa va trageti de pantaloni in sus :)